The first time I reported OT numbers Joe LaMountain explained why the Transfer Station's was high. It is the only department that has gone down consistently since. I consider Joe a man of integrity, and I appreciate Joe explaining his side of the story. At the time I was struggling to get Police numbers, and to Chief Lavin's credit he came up after the meeting and helped me out. Another man of integrity. Dave VanWormer has begun reading his OT numbers at meetings, and I hope it continues. This is something that I thought one of the board members would have done a long time ago. Apparently the board doesn't share my opinion. I also appreciate the Police department putting department reports online. All positive signs.
I listened to Mary Pat Donnelly in October, when I was fuzzy about Ginny O'Brien's double dipping that was getting some play at the time and I wanted some clarification. I've had small conversations with Rick McCabe, Ginny, and Sue, all of which do their best to answer my questions, or concerns.
'Waiting....', if you know more then me, which isn't hard to do, then you can submit an article to the advertiser by emailing 'articles@theadvertiser.us' That would require using your name. I don't think they'll accept your 'waiting....' moniker.
Additionally, I'm not a hard guy to get ahold of. My email: nateegb@gmail.com. I'm fairly visible at meetings. I'm the guy with the mini-camera. I'm more than willing to listen to any side of the story. If you think I'm looking at something improperly, let me know. The thing is I haven't heard from many of the Dems and few have offered to help me understand.
It seems this blog would rather put me into a group I don't belong to, than understand where I'm coming from. You don't think I realize how much I don't know or understand? What do you suggest I do? Trace every Democrat until I get a consensus how you all feel?
Who do you want me to believe? One 'side' is willing to talk and readily approaches newcomers(including me), who by definition, have very little understanding. The other(you) has ignored me(and others) for a year while I sat and watched and now openly trt to insult me. Funny, entertaining, but not really productive.
Fortunately for you, and contrary to your claims, I disagree with 'them' more than I agree. I don't really see anything corrupt or illegal. I don't think things are ideal, i see progress being made, slower than I'd like, but progress nonetheless. For that I am grateful to the board and our employees. This puts me at odds with 'them,' because it's all or nothing over there. Oh well.
But again, for me, I get to hear one side of the story and then I am left to try to piece together the other side, which as you see, is very sporadic. If a citizen doesn't have the time or energy to dig, rather vigorously, they will only ever hear one side of the story('theirs'). That's the option you give to new people. Maybe that's what you want. Again, doesn't seem like a good strategy, but what do I know.
As for the school situation, your right I'm as ignorant as a babe. If there is something you think I can do to help, let me know I'll see what I can do. Problem is I wouldn't know the first place to start. I sat at Town Board meetings for a good 6 months before I really had an idea.
Lastly, I'm wondering what political benefit you perceive I am deriving for what I am doing? Should be interesting.
Hopefully you will take this as an olive branch and perhaps we can have more productive dialog
Nathan Hans
To the blogmaster: perhaps you can make this a separate post? I'd hate to detract from the School district issue.
Nate; without your excellent explanation , I too thought you to attempting nothing more than embarassing public officials and employees. Your explanation puts that to rest.
ReplyDeleteThank you...
To Clark Kent of East Greenbush[Mr. Hans]In reference to the sick leave incentive for town workers.Can you tell me why the sick leave incentive was started?I will tell you why Clark it saved the taxpayers thousands of dollars in the long run.Why dont you find out how much this incentive saved the town in money and workers comp payments and put that in the paper?Thanks
ReplyDeleteAnony @8:01.... I too would love to see an analysis of the cost/benefit of the sick leave incentive. I'd like to understand the rationale. In my work experience (1955-2007), my first encounter with the benefit is in East Greenbush. I think the cost/benefit analysis should also include future costs related to retained sick leave credits used to fund medical benefits in retirement as is done in the state and local and teachers retirement systems. I saw a figure of about $192,000 as the cost of the incentive for the last 4 years of the DPW contract, but that doesn't include future cost. And it doesn't have any analysis at all of what the cost to the taxpayer would have been had the incentive not been in place.
ReplyDeleteNate: could you compare the amount spent on the incentive versus the amount spent on overtime costs incurred by covering for abuse of sick leave? Those figures should put it all into perspective.
ReplyDeleteThere is a built-in incentive to not abuse sick leave in the ability to use of sick leave credits accumulated at retirement to fund health insurance in addition to Medicare after retirement. In my opinion, things like the sick leave incentive should only be applied AFTER the methodologies outlined in the following link have been exhausted.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.osc.state.ny.us/localgov/costsavings/overtimeplanning.htm
319 - what about the "newer" employees in tier 4 and 5 ? There is no accumulating sick leave credits for them- this no incentive to not abuse their sick leave - which equals overtime to cover the medical leave. Your link is great for tier 1 and tier 2 employees- doesn't quite cut it for the newer employees.
ReplyDeleteTo EG talks from anon 801 The abuse of sick leave is not only issue here.Check out the insurance and comp insurance payments before and after the leave was inacted.And for the readers here the town workers can use only 165 days of sick leave when they retire.The state can use 220 days to help pay for health ins.In the Town of East Greenbush your sick time goes to credit additional time served.for example say 165 days equals 8months plus or minus.With this incentive you are going to pay the workers that money if they are sick or not sick,because when sick at home they get paid.The town can get more work done by having everyone present for the work day.
ReplyDeleteI'm not disagreeing with you....but - what about the "occasional" mental health day that is over used? More often than not- it needs to be back-filled and that usually results in overtime. To manage effectively and eliminate the abuse of sick leave would require ALOT of negotiation and manipulation of current labor agreements. Not that it would be a bad thing- but I would guess its not as clear as you would like to see it or imagine it. And...btw: no one is getting fired for abuse of sick leave benefits anymore....sad but true. And...the situation is not germaine to EGB - its extremely wide spread amongst local municipalities. I've checked around with other Towns around the Capital District. They each have their own hills to climb with respect to medical benefits and the abuse thereof. Undoubtedly the waters will be tested and we'll all find out , probably sooner than later .
ReplyDeleteQuestions:
ReplyDeleteWhat year was SL 1st used? What budget line is it accounted under, has it lways been under that line.
When the board put it in place did they indicate why on the resolution?
3/19 2:50 EGtalks: Is there a way an employee indicate s/he is abusing OT/SL?
2 Things I don't understand about sick leave:
1st No other munis have it. I checked with 6 including: the Town of Schodack, the Town of Colonie, the Town of Bethlehem, the Town of Guilderland, the Town of New Scotland, and the Town of Clifton Park.
The closest incentive is CP and they give 1 additional day off if you don't use sick time.
If it's a no-brainer why doesn't any other munis have it?
2nd SL and Paper Time cards are contradictory.
Paper time cards indicate trust between employer and employee. The employer trusts that an employee isn't going to come in at 8:30 and mark down 8.
SL indicates that employees can't be trusted. The employer can't trust the employees to come in to fulfill their obligations so they must overcompensate to incent them to come in, otherwise the town will pay more in costs covering that employee.
So does EG trust our employees to have high integrity or does it not??
I don't know 90% of employees. I know the Town Clerks, the Transfer station guys, and a few others. Based on this I wouldn't think it's necessary to pay extra for coming into work. Everyone who I have contact with seems to genuinely care about the town and takes pride in serving the residents. I highly doubt you'd have to pay Joe L., Linda K., or Kim C. to not abuse Sick Leave and OT. I think they wouldn't do under any cicumstances.
Why not have a community service incentive instead. Employees get extra for serving various local organizations or helping out in other ways. They still get $1000 per year but now it's for doing more rather than doing what they already do anyway.
For the longevity incentive, why aren't hourly employees incentives tracked separately? My guess would be using storage software as accounting software.
When an hourly employee gets a raise, it must be on the total amount of salary + any incentives, which means the raise will be higher than it should.
Thanks for allowing the discussion. I'm enjoying it. Better than experiences I've had at other blogs.
Nate -- good work on your part.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you discovered that East Greenbush is unique in its sick leave "incentive". I worked for the state for over 30 years and I never heard of a practice of paying employees not to use sick leave. It is there to be used if you are sick and in every case a doctor's note can be required --so there is a sure-fire way to stop abuse. In my view, paying someone a max of 1000 dollars/year is simply a way of giving them a bonus in lieu of a raise which must be approved by the Board.
Also -- is it true that hourly employees get a longevity? Also -- how many years do you have to be an employee to get longevity? When I worked for the state you had to have worked at least 5-7 years before you were eligible. Does the Town have a threshold?
Elected official have set salaries. I question whether they should be eligible for sick leave or longevity incentives. Or any incentives for that matter.
Other municipalities do not have some of these perks because, guess what, it costs money.
Nate;
ReplyDeleteSome answers to your questions.
The incentive was first instituted sometime in the early 2000's. It was negotiated and voted on by the the board and workforce. the reason, I assume is to goive employees incentive to not use sick time.
It is a benefit. Every employee in the US gets some type of benefits. Some have better than others. Other muni's may not have a SL incentive, but have something that EG doesn't have. They are all negotiated and voted on.
The incentive does not indicate that the workers are not trusted. Nonsense.
Longevity is not an incentive. It is an accepted form of rewarding a person for years of service and a raise is not computed with the longevity included.
Community service? You mean in addition to working day and night keeping the streets safe, whether by police or dpw? The DPW worked day and night for several weeks, seldom having a day off, without complaint. Many are also volunteer firefighters, doing that in the little spare time they had. Thats not enough for you?
In summary;
The town workforce, from the PD to the DPW, are a dedicated group of people. Our town is a safe place to live, thanks to the PD. The roads are safe and cleared better than any in the area, by the DPW. Their contracts, including this years with no raise, were negotiated and agreed upon by everyone. Some benefits they have may be better than other towns, some not as good. The bottom line is this, they are all paid pretty good with decent contracts and return the favor with good service to the town.
927 - excellent points ! As a resident it is my pleasure to agree with your explanation and also to point out that my neighbor is a Town Employee and has been for 26 years or more. I have often seen him work almost every holiday since i've know him and he rarely is home on time for the evening with his family. He doesn't complain, rather he says its the life and profession he choose. Recently, political hopefuls have decided that his job and the others he works with is something that could bartered for votes. Sad that someone would use such disgrqceful tactics.
ReplyDeleteI would agree that longevity is not an incentive. More often it is the only raise some of these employees get because of politics or the economy.
For those of you taking shots at the DPW and the Police - know this one point; almost every DPW or POlice employee either are or were at one point , a volunteer Fireman or Ambulance worker. That is a fact !
I know for a fact that over in the city of Albany, workers can opt out of health insurance coverage if their spouse has it and then they get a check once a year for around $1300.00 for doing so. I'm sure many municipalities have all different kinds of arrangements such as this one.
ReplyDeleteIs it safe to assume (excluding police) that the average town employee, average, probably grosses, yes, grosses, $50,000? Try to feed a family, pay a mortgage/rent, insurances, car payments, utilities, car/home utilities and TAXES, etc. on that kind of salary. Helllooooo????? We're not talking about a Fortune 500 company here with the income potential of Harvard graduates. Not every one was born with a silver spoon in their mouth and/or college material; somebody has to do this work so, guess what, you pay for it, that's life. The alternative is to go walk a day in their shoes in all kinds of situations and weather and then criticise their pay and benefits. And, why do you think the volunteerism is getting less and less? The pay stinks and all you do is get criticized down the road for it anyway? Stop it already. The saying, damned if you do, damned if you don't, for sure. Life is way too short people. Get over it already. Why not try to do something out of the goodness of your heart for someone just once a month...just because.
I wholeheartedly agree that this town is safe and well taken care of.
ReplyDeleteMy fiance walks the dog at night and beyond normal worry, I feel she
is safe. I also think DPW did a great job this winter and the Transfer
Station guys set a very high bar for service.
The problem isn't the level of service or anything with employee
performance. Rather it is with a 2.6
million debt(yes, I know it's less now... great for a campaign...
still means it got to
that point before action was taken) and 9 years of deficits between
2000-2008. If the reval didn't happen would it have been 10 years???
All I have to do at work is mention I live in EGB and I'm met with the
dreaded 'oooh you have high taxes.' And it is a relatively accurate
statement. Based on what?
Well in 2009...
The Town itself(no school, spec. districts, or county) has the 7th
highest taxes out of 154 municipalities in Saratoga, Rens, Albany, and
Schenectady counties. We are behind Pittstown, Schodack, PETERSBURGH,
PROVIDENCE, HADLEY, RENSSELAERVILLE(not in that order) according to
http://www.osc.state.ny.us/localgov/orptbook/taxrates.htm We pay
almost double the average(1.95/1,000) at 3.80 per $1,000.
As a total, if you pay for East Greenbush Central School we pay the
5th highest total tax(including County, Special District, and school)
behind PITTSTOWN, NORTH GREENBUSH, ROTTERDAMx2(2 school
districts)(not in that order) and if you take an average of the total
we pay about 7 more per $1,000 than the average(22.44/$1,000).
If you live in the Averill Park school district you are fortunate
enough to be #17/154, which is a little cheaper, merely 5/1,000 over
the average.
(Note, the special districts are a calculated figure not exact.)
It's not about any one area of government. Employee benefits are only
one part of the overall budget. A budget that, from the outside
looking in, has not been responsibly managed for longer than I've been
able to vote. Who is bearing the burden for that irresponsibility?? Is
the money being spent by the Town being considered as heavily as the
money coming into the Town?
I think the people who live in the town work just as hard as the people who work for the town. According to The Capital District Regional Planning Commission the 1999 per capita income was $25,503. http://cdrpc.org/CFS/CFS-RenCo_Town_of_East_Greenbush.pdf While it's probably slightly higher now due to inflation, the residents of the town aren't exactly millionaires either and they are sharing your burden of a 2.5% tax increase(not to mention the reval which increased property tax revenues 14%).
As Anon 11:54 said, 'Try to feed a family, pay a mortgage/rent, insurances, car payments, utilities, car/home utilities and TAXES, etc. on that kind of salary.'
My issue is with the taxes. If I focus too much on employee benefits I apologize. I'm not saying the employees are 'robbers' of the tax payers. I highly doubt taking away a 50,000$ incentive will save the taxpayers. And the employees can't be blamed for $440,000 in OT. They are given a duty 'Serve the town,' which is done admirably. The board does a lousy job of adequately staffing our departments so overtime isn't needed. Overtime is a criticism of management not of the frontline employees.
Thanks for your responses.
-Nate
Nate;
ReplyDeleteWhat you don't seem to understand is that much of the OT is a result of unforseen circumstances. Last year we lost an officer to a tragic motorcycle accident. We also, lost another officer to a serious snowmobile accident. Waterbreaks and snowstorms are uncontrolable and need to be dealt with as they happen. This town is not unique when it comes to high OT bills. EVERY municipality has them.
As for the taxes; We might be a lttle higherthan other towns, but let me ask you. Are you willing to give up safe streets, via the PD and DPW, for lower taxes?? If so, I would suggest moving, because I would believe the majority of people are willing to pay a little extra. As the saying goes, "you get what you pay for".
As I recall some of the very old entries, someone mentioned how there were many many projects from developers on the table, where money had to be spent to put the necessary infrastructure (e.g., new water tower?)into place to accommodate new businesses and residential properties that were coming into our town. There was a global meltdown, yes, global Nate, the worst since the Great Depression. Has Nate missed that? The town was in line to generate a lot of sales tax and mortgage tax revenues, among other areas, helping to stabilize our tax base. Everything halted--ask anyone in the building industry. Maybe you might want to go inquire about just how much sales tax dollars comes to this town from places such as Walmart, Target, (just to name a few big ones) etc., where the majority of these sales tax dollars are generated to find out if we are getting our fair share. The only place hopping is the Malta (ChipFab--Saratoga County)area. But, guess what? The Northway can't handle the amount of traffic they have now; they never planned for such growth up in Clifton Park. That roadway is a nightmare and it should have been at least a six lane highway. People who have always lived up there are now complaining about the congestion of people and traffic. Many of us feel that all those people who will be moving here for the new plant and its feeder companies that will be formed, will gladly move to EGB that is only a 20-25 minute commute. We offer a very picturesque suburban area with a great school system and a wonderful area to raise a family, in addition to being only a 10 minute drive to anything that the Capitol of New York State has to offer, such as your job. So, yes, Nate, the next time you're talking with co-workers, you might want to encourage people to live on this side of the river, as you do. It's also called patience--this economic recovery isn't happening overnight, we're still a few years away but I truely believe, "if you build it, they will come". And, yes, 8:28, you do get what you pay for.
ReplyDelete6:18.....I think part of Nate's point was that there were 9 deficit years until the REVAL and the 2.5 million deficit existed BEFORE any global (yes, global) melt-down.
ReplyDeleteLet's take a simple look at the largest area of overtime - our police department. Please remember before anyone fires back that this comment is NOT about the work of the department -it is just about overtime.
ReplyDeleteBoth our Supervisor and our Deputy Supervisor have made public comments that the hiring of three aditional officers will reduce overtime. These are two leaders who are in a position to know what's going on and they have the ability to monitor and influence the management of that town department in a very significant way.
Let's track overtime and see how the forecasted or projected reduction in overtime works out.
Maybe you're right. Maybe the 6 months of +400 hrs OT has been
ReplyDeleteunforeseeable. Maybe in the next few months OT
will drop down below 100 hrs.
Maybe the 60+ hours for the dispatchers has been unforeseeable.
Maybe the pipe breaks for the past 6 months have been unforeseeable
and the water department doesn't regularly have 90+ hours OT.
Maybe 16,000 spent on parks OT is an anomaly.
Fact: Reggie being absent from the Transfer station WAS unforeseeable.
The Transfer Station took measures to replace him and the OT has
fallen back down to, what I think is, a good level.
6 months of data isn't a lot, and certainly not enough to make a
final conclusion. But this time next year, if this town has another
$440,000 OT year... it won't be because things were 'unforeseeable.'
I don't know a bunch, but I can think of a few things the Town could
try to lower the amount of OT, foreseeable or not.
One idea, For the DPW why not have a cross department guy? Utility
Infielder who can help out where needed. He can help out at the Transfer Station, Plow Streets, help out with water mains, help the maintenance department, and help out the Parks and Recs department. One or two of these kinds of employees would do wonders, yes?
I'm sure it would require more thought and depth than I'm giving it,
but perhaps it will stimulate thinking.
8:28, We'll find out in time if what you say is true. Maybe it has been unforeseen and the overtime this year was an anomaly. Either way, you have my word I will be here to report it.
6:18 In terms of the meltdown... I'm probably too young and inexperienced to understand how badly that has affected the town.
Maybe you all can help me.
Does it normally take a government 9 years to adjust to a meltdown?
Did it take other governments 9 years to stop having deficits(No,
schodack had 3 supluses in the 9 year period, Guilderland fared much better, tho they are in Albany County which has far lower taxes than Rens County.)? Was the only way the Town could find to stop the deficits through the reval? If I foil for OT
figures from 2000-2009 will I find that the Town minimized that expense to help get through tough times? Did the Town have an audit to determine what it would need to do differently to cope with the meltdown? Were audits it did have, like the Bruen audit in 2000, addressed properly? Were extra payments for gas mileage, 'extra hours,' or 'Deposit processing' stopped to reduce expenses? Did the Town invest in technology such as software for accounting or time keeping to ensure each dollar was being carefully tracked and spent? Was the budget reviewed regularly to ensure money from all departments accounted for, such as Scrap money? Were duties segregated to ensure proper procedure was followed for handling cash?
Again, you all know far more than I do. What measures did the town take to adjust to the meltdown?
To use something I do understand... if your roof starts leaking don't wait for the rain to stop to take action. Get a bucket to prevent what damage you can. When it stops you take more concrete steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. Does this sound accurate or have I 'missed' something?
What buckets did the Town use to stop the rain?
I look forward to learning from you all.
I partially disagree with 'you get what you pay for.' I don't see the
correlation that high taxes equal safer streets. As I read through the
list of other municipalities, I don't see many that I would consider 'unsafe,' and most are cheaper than our taxes. I'm not saying we don't have to pay our fair share to support Police, Fire, etc. I'm merely saying we should ONLY have to pay our fair share, not more.
-Nate Hans
Lets stay on topic people.
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts on numerous comments:
ReplyDeleteSick leave accruals are not presently used to fund health insurance in retirement for EG employees.
I believe that the State’s use of sick leave to cover health insurance in retirement is independent of retirement tier. This falls under Civil Service Law. I believe it may be an option for municipalities and school districts.
Concerning the Sick Leave Incentive, a starting DPW laborer gets about $21/hour or $168/day and earns 1.25 days of sick leave per month. Taking three months worth of earned sick leave (that is 3.75 days yields $630 in unproductive expenses NOT including the expense of staffing the post. The sick leave incentive is $250/Quarter.
It's been my experience that sick leave and vacation are paid from the same line as the individual's salary. I believe this is true for East Greenbush.
I don't see how "SL indicates that employees can't be trusted." Ditto the Sick Leave Incentive. Sick Leave is a method of protecting an employee's income when they are sick. Some employees may be very capable of working with a headache, toothache, cold, what have you, others may not. You might like to know that NYS allows an employee to charge sick leave for “illness in the employee’s immediate family”, including “visits to doctor or dentist or other recognized medical practitioner.” The need for a doctor's note is usually covered by collective bargaining agreements.
Furthermore, the employer - employee relationship is built upon trust. Otherwise there would be a one-to-one relationship between supervisor and subordinate. How costly would this be?
I find no contradiction in "SL and Paper Time cards". Nor, evidently, does the State of New York. When one in State service uses sick leave, annual leave or any leave for that matter, it is recorded on the individual's time sheet independent of the collective bargaining unit. State employees attest to the accuracy of their timesheets as do their supervisors. If you have any doubts about the seriousness of falsifying a timesheet, see “Seventeen Years of Fraud by the Former Director of the Department of Correctional Services’ Food Production Center” at http://osc.state.ny.us/audits/allaudits/093010/08s176.pdf
Concerning the “Longevity Increase”, it is my understanding that the annual percentage increases are not applied to the longevity increase. Also, State positions have a “Hire Rate” and a “Job Rate” and provides for annual salary increase over a period of seven years IN ADDITION to whatever annual percentage increases are negotiated. East Greenbush has no such mechanism. The $.20 per hour “Longevity Increase” is essentially in lieu of what NYS calls performance advances. So the DPW laborer who started at about $21/hour, after five years will earn $1.00 more per hour than someone just starting (both would benefit from the same annual percentage increases).
The idea of “a community service incentive instead” of a sick leave incentive begs the question of whether taxpayers, not to mention the State Comptroller and/or Attorney General, would tolerate Town expenditures to help “local organizations”. At least there is the potential for Sick Leave Incentive savings for EG.
Lastly, prudent management does not plan for peak staffing needs, thus OT is needed at times and is generally more efficient that hiring additional staff. It would be wonderful if snow storms, traffic accidents, or sewer and water main breaks adhered to a 9-5 schedule, but that is not the case. East Greenbush and every other municipality must deal with this harsh reality.
Think of power generating plants ... if built for peak demand, there would never be brown-outs, but consumers would be paying for very costly excess capacity.
Pete Stenson
Just in the interest of full disclosure, who is Nate Hans? He writes a lot of things about a lot of people, and criticizes everyone. He asks people to join his crusade as though he was a leader. What's up with this guy? Do tell.
ReplyDeleteFull disclosure:
ReplyDeleteI grew up in Pittstown, went to Tamarac High School, lived in Albany for 6 months, then moved to EG in September 2009. I have a fiance, a dog and a cat. You will probably see me walking my dog(a beagle boston terrier mix) in hampton manor.
I'm a computer guy. I studied at HVCC and St. Rose. I work for SEFCU back office in IT.
I don't mean to criticize, merely understand, I'm sorry if it comes across the wrong way.
I also have no crusade. My purpose is simple:
"To leave society not less but greater, better, and more beautiful than it was transmitted to me." it's an old athenian oath I do say I enjoy.
Specifically what is my purpose on the talks blog?
1)To show the dems I'm not someone stirring up trouble for the sake of it, and that I have no agenda other than helping my community. I think the dems, most of them, really do care about this town and are willing to help someone who wants to help their community, even if it's someone who disagrees with them. I also think you have the wrong idea of who I am and what I'm trying to do, hopefully I can change that.
2)The dems have gotten a bad rap, some of it well deserved, most isn't. My hope is to create a discussion with the dems, and try to change a few things in a respectful manner. I don't think the dems are as closeminded as many paint them to be. Maybe I'm completely off base and the dems will simply toy with me as a cat with a mouse(I would guess this is what my reform friends will think.) Maybe I'll achieve nothing
significant in my time here, but just maybe I will change something.
3)I want to understand and learn. I'm 26(27 in June). I don't know a lot. I'm very new to government, politics, community. It's very easy to find other people with more experience in all of these areas. To sit around, assume I know everything, seems foolish to me. I have very easy access to a few people with a very limited range of opinions. I'd like to open up the channels of communication to more people with a broader range of opinions.
I also hope that citizens will see there is more than one way to show disapproval with things. A discussion doesn't need to be nasty or disrespectful. I disagree with the example set by many of my neighbors, and hope to provide a different example. Maybe you will help me in that goal. EG Talks, you provided a great example for all when you deleted a few comments that distracted from the conversation. Thank you.
If you have any suggestions, things I'm doing wrong, or a different way of bringing up disagreements with my government, I'm all ears.
If you have any questions, please ask. I'm not hiding anything and will be more than happy to clear up any confusion.
If you want to talk privately, nateegb@gmail.com
In her latest line of political carrying on- former Council Candidate Taylor goes on and on about nepotism and overtime. Well, quite frankly , she's simply out in left field -( as usual). The simple fact is this : nepotism is the hiring and favoritism shown to friends as well as relatives when hiring. Mrs Taylor stops short of the friends portion of the definition. She will NOT admit DenFruscio hiring by cristo was the clearest form of nepotism as well as Tom grant and Joe Kelly - ALL friends of cristo !
ReplyDeleteShe also clearly has absolutely no idea how overtime is handled in a municiple setting. Probably the best way to handle any overtime discussion or the handling thereof, it would involve speaking directly with department heads and making plans from that point. The simple fact is that neither Taylor nor cristo want to bother - they'd rather simply throw around baseless facts -
OUR SOLUTION: get real - ask questions and be open minded about the responses you receive.
"internal controls" is a phrase best left at the gynecologist/proctologist office!
Normally - I'd never write anything so scathing - but ya know what ?? C'mon man ! Enough of the political word play- McCabe and OBrien are doing just fine- you reformers don't like it - too bad - pony up the cash and run an effective/efficient campaign and stop the lying and name calling and we'll stop the replies that you deserve ! Its about that simple.
I also think its pathetic that you need three different blogs because you couldn't stick together enough to form a basketball team.
Eastgreenbushunites,eastgreenbushblog and the one that allegedly envokes some bible passages or whatever other frantic/angry - prozac laden responses - oh PUHLEEZ! Have a glass of Champagne and relax !
No matter how many blogs you create - your direction is the same regardless- down the drain ! Unless you've got something better than the unattainable goals your playing now - see ya in 5 years. The sooner you get some thick skin- the easier this will be- GROW-UP Ann - and watch that temper ! ROFLMAO!
not even close....... but keep guessing.
ReplyDeleteHiring family and friends seems to be a problem in this town but could it be that one of the problems is that "new blood" only infiltrates when the majority changes? The window for hiring in that case is very short -- is it enough time to conduct a genuine search for qualified nonpartisan employees? I'm not sure.
ReplyDeleteI know that no one cares about this because one of the perks of the election process is to hire those who have helped the majority get elected in the first place. So I think you are barking up the wrong tree when you advocate for "neutral hiring." And I agree both parties are guilty of this practice.
Timmy, I agree nepotism includes friends. What's your take on the practice of it? Fair play or an issue that needs to be resolved?
ReplyDeleteI also agree that Public and Private sectors are very different.
Pete,
To clarify, everytime I mentioned SL I meant the incentive not the actual use of taking a sick day. Sorry, that was unclear.
To revise: SL incentive indicates that employees can't be trusted.
Maybe I'm thinking about it too much, but it seems to me you wouldn't give extra money for something you think is going to be done. Would you give a janitor extra for scrubbing toilets? Unless you thought a large number of people would abuse sick time, why have the incentive? I understand it is a benefit to prevent someone from abusing their time, but does the Board really think the employees are the type to abuse something like that? Again, the few employees I know seem to have a high integrity and wouldn't abuse sick leave with or without the $250 per quarter.
"It's been my experience that sick leave and vacation are paid from
the same line as the individual's salary. I believe this is true for
East Greenbush."
Again, I meant the sick leave incentive. Is there a separate line like the one for longevity and medical buy-out? If not, why?
"Concerning the “Longevity Increase”, it is my understanding that the annual percentage increases are not applied to the longevity increase."
If they don't track the longevity separately for hourly employees, as indicated in my FOIL response: http://www.east-greenbush.com/thestory/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Longevity2010.pdf , how can a raise NOT include the longevity pay?
The OT the town has had over the past 6 months haven't been 'at times.' They have been regularly elevated. The Transfer Station is the one example where a one time issue was causing a spike. As I said, 6 months isn't a long time and maybe the rest of the departments will come back down shortly. But if they don't come down, I don't see think $440,000 of OT as 'prudent management'. Maybe I'm too young and will come to learn 8 employees worth of salary is a reasonable ball park for OT expense.
Pete, this is a great question for you, when you look at overtime numbers, is there a threshold you would consider acceptable? My uneducated figure is about 80 hrs, anything over that and I would think you hire a part-time worker to fill in. Please note I'm talking of a consistently high figure. Anyone else can feel free to answer as well. I don't mean to limit my question to Pete.
Thanks for the discussion.
Nate: nepotism has been practiced in Town and throughout the State for years! Years ago, the Republican party was the epitomy of nepotism. Bender, Williams, Cherubino, Guynup, Kennedy , Defruscio and many,many others.
ReplyDeleteALL of those mentioned are / were excellent employees who did nothing but come to work and do their job! Now lets jump to 2010 and this past election. All of a sudden, the Cristo/Taylor team have decided that nepotism needs to be a election issue and they went to great lengths to attempt to make it so. All they did was piss off old time Republicans and lost many potential votes. That is a fact because I'm one of them ! With regards to the sick leave incentive , it kinda works like this: when your budget is being blown out of the water by medical leave , which is being covered by overtime, and as the department head, you lack the hard evidence to punish the employee you believe is abusing their sick leave because they don't leave a pattern of abuse or some other form of identifiable abuse, you look for other ways or means to either eliminate or at the very least , lessen sick leave. The sick leave incentive , actually saves the Town money in the end, when compared to the amount that would be spent in overtime to cover the sick employees shift. I would suggest that maybe you could compare those two figures, and I believe that would be the way to fully identify whether or not the sick leave incentive is useful and effective.
Webster's New Riverside University Dictionary...
ReplyDeletethis is the one I always keep at my desk
Nepotism...Favoritism shown by persons in high office to relatives or close friends, esp. in granting jobs.
I know I have been given a job by a friend...because I was qualified..they needed the help and I gave it my all. In fact, I retired from that job. Perhaps Ann doesn't realize the job her friend gave her qualifies, by definition, as nepotism. She may just refuse to see it as such...who's to say.
I could care less about who is doing what job within the town as long as everyone is doing an honest days work. I guess I just don't understand how the Reformers, Republicans or whatever they call themselves today, don't think throwing people out of their jobs and putting their own people in them was not nepotism..when of course, it was. When the present party got the chance, they just reversed the process...get real..that was no different than what you did. Chris DeFruscio was given a job, and as a friend of Mike Cristo, that is nepotism...call it anything that you want...that's what it was. Nepotism is present in both the public and private sector..always has been and always will be. I think both sides just need to chill and enjoy the Spring...it should be here eventually!
I looked at the new site...East Greenbush Unites...it was kind of like picking up an old newspaper and thinking..oh, yeah...I already read this one. It's like rehashing everything that has been said for the past year. I don't know about anyone else...but it's time to move on for me.
Oh, and by the way, the answer to the question..who celebrates at the VFW..in regards to Election night...I was there...I think the answers was "WINNERS"!
btw there 747- I asked Nate to compare those numbers- I'm waiting for his analysis,
ReplyDeleteon the contrary - how about you produce figures to the contrary?! You show me that you know anything about this topic and be specific, show your evidence to the contrary ! I'd be willing to bet that Nate is able to produce that comparitively - the money given out for NOT abusing your sick leave is less that what would be needed to cover those shifts with overtime by someone else!
Lola - how does Ann Taylor's job in private industry have anything to do with a postion of "high office"? By definition??? I suggest you reread your little definition.
ReplyDeleteThe traditional definition of nepotism relates to family members. Why are you people ignoring cronyism? After all you have turned that into an artform.
Ann Taylor's unpaid Town Hall position last year may be cronysism or nepotism (if you prefer that term), but how much favoritsim is involved with a no-pay job?
Cronyism/nepotism likely cannot be helped in a small town. How many people really want to rely on procuring a position that could have you out the door in a year? Not me, that's for sure. But it would be nice to not see all of the same old faces time and time again down at Town Hall. It would be nice if some other people, regardless of political affiliation, were given a little more consideration.
Anonymous 7:44AM.....Ann Taylors's job is absolute nepotism...as was mine. Mine was also in the private industry working for a friend. A friend can be counted as a "crony". A "high place" is in the eye of the beholder. Get over yourself dear.
ReplyDeleteAT was named economic development coordinator solely to boost her resume for a run for town board.
ReplyDeleteWhy wasn't it a problem when the Reps hired DeFruscio,Breig,Breig,Grant,Crist? All were friends of Republicans weren't they?
ReplyDelete213- YES THEY WERE - ALL OF THEM ! CRISTO'S CRONYS - EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM !!!
ReplyDeleteGot my chuckle catching up on the blogs this morning....how petty can you get - picking on people about coloring their hair! Come on people-on both sides. I'm sure nobody really cares, so don't be mean just to be mean. I know for a fact that guy Joe at the transfer station colors his hair...I say good for him if that's what he wants to. I know he doesn't find it offensive when someone mentions it-we've talked about it. BTW Joe...looking a little grey there! I color my hair...and my pet is overweight so please don't start talking about us...the cat is very sensitive!
ReplyDeleteYO 433 - GET A SET OF GLASSES. I DID NOT SAY IT WAS OK. YOU WHACKOS THINK YOU CAN JUST THROW THE NEPOTISM AND THEN THE CRONY TERMS AROUND BECAUSE CRISTO SAYS SO. CRISTO WAS AND IS THE BIGGEST HYPOCRIT THIS TOWN HAS KNOWN! THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I DON'T CARE WHETHER YOU AREE OR LIKE IT . CRISTO DID IT AND NOW WANTS EVERYONE TO THINK ITS SOME KIND OF ILLEGAL OR IMMORAL PRACTICE. MORE GARBAGE FROM CAMP CRISTO IS ALL IT IS!
ReplyDeleteonce again 726 - its your selective memory - read back thru the cristo/taylor blog..they were and still are the ones claiming nepotism and favortism and cronyism. Right after the January organizational meeting - (remember that?) Taylor, who wasn't even there at the meeting but was getting text messages from Sean Mulvey and others, started blogging that evening about the political appointments. Remember?? No ?? Let me refresh your selective memory- it was Taylor who started this ball rolling. Get your facts straight. She blogged immediatly that evening!
ReplyDeleteNot one person here started anything, just answered the hypocritical crap from the Rep./reform group.
Conveniently selective- I don't think so...you need to look in the mirror- there in lies the real culprit!
The Orgainizational Meeting was 1/3/11 at 4PM and the time on the post Ann did was 4:40PM. She started the whole crapshoot...put your big girl panties on and admit it...you weren't even there but why let a little thing like that stop you.
ReplyDeleteI WAS AT THE ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING AND LAUGHED OUT LOUD WATCHING TAYLORS LITTLE CREW OF RATS SIT IN THE BACK ROW- TEXTING HER MESSAGES SO SHE COULD "SCOOP" THE MEETING TO HER COWARDLY CREW OF BLIND MICE FOLLOWERS.
ReplyDeleteAND THIS SAME BUNCH ARE OBVIOUSLY THE SORT AND SAME AS 726AM,433P,1241. ALL GULPERS OF THE CRISTO KOOL-AID AND TAYLOR-TEMPER STEW! BON-APPETITE!
Why are we even entertaining any of this and or them on this subject? Okay, let's surround ourselves with all the disfunctionals that were appointed by the"others" that seriously took their departments down the tubes last year. Now that is really a smart way to run your Town. Would you run a business like that? Let's reappoint all those dysfunctionals who the residents of this town and co-workers constantly complained about irregardless of political affiliations. Get off of it already. I don't care if you have every person with the same last name in every job in this town. The real point is that each and every person appointed to positions are qualified, have credible work histories, are educated and work very hard for this town as a Team on a daily basis. That is the operative word, teamwork, no matter what your affiliation is with anyone! Maybe someday the others will get that.
ReplyDelete141- exactly and agree on all points-
ReplyDeleteI think the nonsense needs to stop as far as bantering with "them". They are just so unworthy. Enough said!
ReplyDeleteBye ~ Bye angry person
ReplyDeleteAlthough I have made promises to many people that I'd never read the ridiculous crap from the blog of Dwight Jenkins, I was e-mailed by numerous friends about Dwights latest hate blog against Rick McCabe. I cautiously read the abusive waste of poltical posturing and agreed with my friends. This is nothing but nasty, angry, worthless ,soapbox preaching by a washed-up nobody in Town who didn't get his way on something. You all are free to read -( I wouldn't recommend it) the preaching-( I use that term loosely) of the so-called ex-marine who likes to quote bible passages in an attempt to qualify his maniacal rantings. I personally see him as a very sad example of yet another disgruntled loser who bought into the Cristo Kool-Aid and now feels dejected and rejected.
ReplyDeleteSadly, Dwight still can't come to grips with the fact that his savior, Cristo, is full of crap. Dwight still can't seem to realize that Taylor really isn't a "numbers lady" , and has been terminated from jobs where she had to use "numbers". Sorry Dwight, your simply wrong again, and quoting the bible for verification simply isn't cutting it anymore! Best of luck with your dilema and we'll be thinking of ya while we celebrate the well deserved honor presented to Rick McCabe Saturday evening! Pitiful that Dwight just simply can't keep his vile opinions to himself. I found it interesting that you can't respond to his opinions- he simply can't handle rejection. No guts huh Dwight?
I also just read Dwights nonsense after someone insisted. There are a couple of things I would like to ask Dwight, but he doesn't accept comments.
ReplyDelete1. When did your life become so meaningless that you have to attack and assail a person such as Rick McCabe, for being honored for his lifetime commitment to helping the youth in the E.G. - Rensselaer? Are you proud of such a vile post? Is it jealousy? Are you truly off your rocker or is it an act? What have you ever done to help anyone?
2. What can your family be thinking? They are good people. Are they embarrassed? Ashamed? They certainly can't be proud of this behavior. I really feel sorry for them.
3. Have you spoken to anyone lately? I mean a professional.....cuz you need to. Amen
Dear Dwight, Don , and the rest of you angry, pathetic so-called reformers: please seek professional help. Its apparent you all need it - desparately !
ReplyDeleteMcCabe is being honored for his volunteer work OUTSIDE the political arena- you morons can't see that long before he ever entertained anything political- he was a coach and volunteer for many non-political organizations! What have any of you whacko's done for the youth in the area? Don?? huh?? Silence - I thought so ! You jackwagons couldn't organize a sit in rally at the sewer treatment plant !
Once again they prove what everyone seems to think about the extremely disfunctional reform party- useless, angry and completely in need of a labotomy ! They simply can't get past the fact that they have not one credible person in their cadre of inept minions. Your envy is taking over rational thinking - if that's even possible for you insane escapees of CDPC !!
ReplyDeleteWent to the Boys and Girls Club Fundraiser- place was packed ! Largest crowd in many years. The honor given to the Supe was well deserved ! Great night- great friends - all for a great cause !
ReplyDeleteWhen I attended the Boy's and Girl's Club Charity Auction I was greatly impressed to see all of the people there, from all walks of life, to honor Mr. Rick McCabe for all of his accomplishements throughout the years.
ReplyDeleteThere are people that want to criticize Supervisor McCabe and spread innuendos and do lots of name calling for political reasons. Let any of the Reformers step forward and compare their accomplishments to what Mr. McCabe has done in his lifetime of caring and giving to his community on both a personal and professional level.
On a more personal note - I have no doubt that Rick McCabe will be re-elected as Supervisor, along Phil Malone and Sue Mangold to the Town Board and Toni Murphy as Receiver of Taxes.
Let the false prophets from the Reform party step forward and show us what you've got! Oh, by the way...didn't one of the Reformers, who has his own blog once state...."Let me be King....I'll straighten things out"....how about it King!
Great evening ! Not one reformer to be found- they're too cheap !
ReplyDeleteI find it totally disgusting that "Bugaboo" would actually criticize Mrs. O'Brien for writing something about the late Mrs. Geraldine Ferraro's death. He actually had the nerve to put the entry under the "Ethic" thread..that is the most unscrupulous group of people....it's actually amusing that they are so concerned about ethics at all. So Bugaboo...kick any kittens lately? Is life really that bad over in Sherwood Park that you have to pick apart even the kindest gestures?
ReplyDeleteThe " ann Taylor-Ray Mooney-Bonnie Lester Love Fest" over there is nothing but pure foolish rhetoric by the losing faction in Town. Ray can't seem to understand why no one will give him the time of day - Bonnie simply is posturing for November 2011 and Taylor - well just read her posts and you decide.
ReplyDeleteReally people- we're in much better shape than these malcontents want anyone to think. They're never going to be happy unless the Town fires ALL currrent employees and hires their friends and family. We all saw how great that worked last year -( Defruscio,Grant) so really, who cares what Ray Mooney and Bonnie and Johnson the angry man write?! No one actually agrees with any of their ridiculous banter anyway. Dwight is clearly off his rocker and he's apparently one of the reform party leaders?? Oh puhleez mother !!!
On a more positive note....spoke with 3 different people this morning that didn't realize Ann and Mike were okay with being so callous. Thanks Reformers for handing the Democrats a few more votes....keep up the good work!
ReplyDeleteYo Bug.....where I come from speaking ill of the dead is a no-no.....
ReplyDeleteWhether or not you like Mrs. O'Brien or any other member of the board, speaking ill of the deceased by trying to make a political point is inappropriate by anyone's standards...
I would like to hear what Ann or Mike think about your comments and whether or not it an appropriate forum. There's a time and place for everything and while you have a right to your opinion, do you really think condemning someone for their opinion on a dead woman is appropriate?
Whack-a-poohcreek and the other nut cases are once again showing their true colors. Poor Jack Conway is their latest target. Jack should known better - their pathetic losers with one simple thought- anything that is "anti-Democratic" and they can't see past their hatred for anything McCabe or OBrien. Too Bad- but hey- Thanx for the votes !
ReplyDeleteTaylor can only wish she had the same political clout that Ginny has ! Good luck trying though Taylor - your already a marked and stamped LOSER!! Your only hope for the future is to walk away from Cristo the psycho-loser. Whatever he touches turns to sh*t ! Ask Denfruscio and tom Grant !! I heard he turned his back on them as well. Mike Cristo= BAD for East Greenbush !
ReplyDeleteOff in the wild blue yonder again guys.....anything to keep the questions important to the Town from being addressed. And anything to keep the record of your patrons from being examined. Such a sorry task.....
ReplyDeleteThe Wild blue yonder would be the mindless rants coming from Taylor, her muse bugaboocreek and the minister of the pathetic prays blog. reality is that there's NOTHING wrong right now and you can't handle it. The only thing you all have to bitch about is that your candidates didn't win, and you and yours arn't running the twon into the ground, like Grant,Defruscio and other cristo handpicked incompetent choices. Too Bad!
ReplyDeletehey 846 - and exactly what are the important questions your referring too? Just for the record- I believe there's nothing being hidden either - so explain and be specific with your accusations.
ReplyDeleteOtherwise - your baseless accusations fall into the same catagory as all the rest of the fiction coming from whats left of Camp Cristo- No??
Ann Taylors newest thread just shows how jealous she is. It's hardly a secret that she can't even hold a job long enough to get a decent pension. McCabe worked for his retirement pension and is entitled to it. Many people have worked more than one job and earned more than one pension. As far as photo ops for political reasons, check some of last years Advertiser's - Ann had her picture in there weekly. If you want people to take any of your ideas seriously, you need to get on board and try to be helpful...not just tear everything and everyone apart. Leave that to Mike...he's in the demolition business...a family business I might add, hired by his father. You can see there are more people involved in family businesses than those being criticized by the Taylor/Cristo blog. Ann, you can either become involved in a helpful way or continue your smear campaign but I definitely see this town moving forward with the present 5 members of the Board.
ReplyDeleteLike it or not, we voters have chosen who we want to represent us so respect that decision and give the Board an opportunity to proceed.
Respectfully,
Jake