| Estimated Annual Real Property Tax Payments | $9,347,844 |
| Host Community Annual Share of Gaming Revenues | $11,400,000 |
| Estimated Annual Sales Tax Generated | $800,000 |
| Estimated One-Time GEIS Fee | $6,000,000 |
| $27,547,844 |
Town-wide East Greenbush-levied taxes are estimated to be:
| Town of East Greenbush | $694,878 |
| Town of East Greenbush, Highway | $398,778 |
| $1,093,656 |
These are revenues that could be used to:
- Fix the Town’s financial problems
- Reduce the property tax burden on East Greenbush taxpayers;
- Incentivize responsible business development along Columbia Turnpike;
- Make the 2012 East Greenbush Amenities Plan (improving the Town’s Parks) a reality; and
- Make the 2011 Albany-Hudson Electric Trail (hiking/biking path linking Albany and Hudson) a reality.
It would be a "no-brainer" if the decision was just about the money. It’s not. The Town Board must also consider the many valid concerns expressed at Columbia High on May 19th and the May 21st Town Board Meeting, and expected at the June 4th Public Hearing (7:00pm - 9:00pm at Genet Elementary School, 29 Englewood Avenue in East Greenbush), including the potential for:
- decreased property values and quality of life;
- increased problem gambling, crime and traffic;
- increased need for police and fire support.
I
sincerely hope the East Greenbush Town Board Members are doing their due
diligence and spending many, many days and nights agonizing over the Casino question,
weighing these and many other factors very, very carefully!
Pete Stenson
Thanks Pete. Has anybody crunched any numbers as to the infrastructure costs? Real numbers? I've heard 16 new cops. What about sewer and water? The thirteenth floor of a hotel on one of the highest spots in Town is going to take some water pressure - for showers, flushing and firehoses.
ReplyDeleteAre your numbers guaranteed? Seems that the potential losses that the "arrangement" with the Saratoga operation have to cover just might cut in to the rosy revenue picture - especially over time.
I'm glad that you mentioned the social cost to the community. That's something really not calculated in cash.
16 new cops ?
DeleteNot with this Board Majority.
They don't support the 16 we already have !
Does anyone have even the slightest bit of confidence that Keith Langley will look after the Town's best interests if indeed the casino goes through and its revenue projections are accurate? The only interests Keith Langley looks out for are those of his very, very good friend Chris DeFruscio. Is that fair to the rest of the Town's residents and taxpayers?
DeleteThe revenue estimates keep going up & they state the numbers are from similarly sized facilities in comparable locations. What is the impact on those projections when you add in the three other new facilities that will also be approved? . The East Greenbush location will be in competition with all the existing facilities and the 3 other new ones for the gaming dollars being wagered. Just don't see where these lavish projections are sustainable..
ReplyDeleteGadfly May 29, 2014 11:12 AM
ReplyDeleteDon, you and I have been around long enough that there are only two certainties in life. This presents a chance to do something about one of them - taxes.
I will guarantee that $250,000,000 at the current General Tax rate of $2.77951200 per $1,000 is $694,878 (you can verify the same with your tax bill figures - the School Tax would be the "Non-Homestead" rate).
The figures are called "estimates" for a reason. Actual tax revenue, as I'm sure you know, would be subject to a whole host of influences beyond "our" control, including the Town Board, County Legislature, other Statewide gaming revenues generated, etc., etc. Again, they are called "estimates".
Now, the beauty of a PDD is that it can be subject to a number of conditions. If East Greenbush is selected, the PDD becomes a very powerful negotiating tool.
Remember the $500K that FedEx pledged to contribute towards Route 4 improvements if future expansion diminished traffic flow beyond a certain point? Remember how quickly FedEx agreed to my request to index the $500K using some highway construction inflation factor?
Sue Mangold mentioned hiring a casino negotiator at the last Pre-Board Meeting. Tom and Eileen Grant repeated the idea at the last Town Board Meeting.
Water pressure can be solved with pumping stations (also, aren't they water tanks shown in the pictures?).
I believe I heard the improved WWTP will handle the sewer flow. Hookups, etc. are paid by the developer.
Saratoga Gaming might agree to staff and equip a "Public Safety Sub-Station" housing police, ambulance and fire equipment on site. Two officers 24/7 requires 8.4 'bodies' (24 x 7 x 2 = 336 hours. 336 / 40 = 8.4). This would save response precious time.
Pete Stenson
And it ALL hangs on the availability of cash in the pockets of those who will enter the place. That is an unpredictable variable, and is affected by the economy, regional saturation, weather, etc. That's exactly why Feathers and the State worked out that little "siphon" arrangement for the Racino in Saratoga to tap the competition in the Capital District, which has now caused the Rensselaer developer to pull out.
DeleteAn interesting comment was made by Les Bernal, our speaker tonight, on WAMC this afternoon. He said that casinos were the only "industry" in the United States whose "services" were not used by those who run them. It's a real simple "business model" which taps the weaknesses of the most vulnerable and is licensed by the state. None of the other state licensed gambling models have delivered on the promises made at their beginnings.
Can we get them to agree to that before the Board votes on the resolution? I am concerned that these estimates will take a downward turn as soon as they are in. Thanks for your thoughtful post Pete.
DeleteSuzanne
There is only one slated for this region
ReplyDeleteHow many times can people tell you your taxes are going down pick a topic town elections ,fed x, tax caps, keep staring into the sun
ReplyDeleteDidn't Langley promise no taxes increase for 2014. Instead, he ended up casting a vote that raised taxes. I won't be forgetting that vote when/if? he runs for Supervisor again.
DeleteWell~well~well ! We all sit here pondering and debating the moves of a Town Board majority that is so utterly corrupt and incompetent, combined with the arrogance of MAM and Gilbert the deputy stooge !
ReplyDeleteWhat did anyone expect ? Honestly - read back thru the archives of this blog , back thru Sept and Oct of 2013. Many warnings were given , not about Dimartino nor Matters , but about DEFRUSCIO !
That moron will screw this up and you all can b*tch and complain until the cows come home - it'll be for nothing !
Still hoping Langley will do the right thing ?
Guess again ! This town was desperate to screw over the dems that they gave power to the biggest farce of a campaign in the history of EG politics, run buy a guy who has not one lick of common sense nor wants it !
When people such as Ed Gilbert are placed into positions after being slammed in elections, that should alert you whats running the Town. People placed into important roles such as George Philips, even after he was tossed out of Glenville on his ear, that should have given you a clue.
The new assessor made it very clear that she was going to be employed "on her terms", and these idiots in Town Hall blindly agreed ! That combined with the mere fact that DPW is a shambles...the senior men keep things running...NOT corellis nor fiacco ! All of the Towns labor Unions are without contracts - for shame ! Langley has no clue, nor does MAM or Dimartino! This will cost us all eventually .
I fear that before the next election, it will be too late to correct ALL the mismanagement and incompetence of the Langley administration. He is NO leader. He is NOT a very capable communicator . and the worst of it all is that he relies upon jacka**'s such Defruscio and Tirino for advice !
That should be the biggest neon sign that we're screwed !
Wake up people ! Demand answers or his resignation !
Langley is a putz. We all deserve what we elected.
ReplyDeleteMAM and Dimartino are lining up on the "plausible deniablity" band wagon. See no evil, Speak no evil, hear no evil ! LMAO !
Will Supervisor Langley commit to the casino promised 30% decrease in property taxes if the casino comes in? Keith Langley promised us no tax increase for 2014 and then followed the instruction of Chris DeFruscio to increase our taxes for 2014. Can Langley be trusted??
ReplyDeleteIn the light of the subject of this Post, the story and link at the bottom of the story are essential reading for anyone seriously supporting the establishment of a casino in East Greenbush. They should be able to counter the material:
ReplyDeletehttp://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/213678/dinapoli-report-voices-concerns-over-gambling-expansion/
By now I am sick to death of all casino talk.....don't care if we get one or don't get one. The SWF got exactly what they voted for.....so now it's time to suck it up buttercup.
ReplyDeleteWow the DiNapoli report really puts Langley and the board in the defensive mode now. Who would go against that report?
ReplyDeleteThe Division of the Budget estimates that the four new casinos will create 2,900 jobs. Since one of them will be a huge new one near Exit 15B on the Thruway, how is it possible that 1,700 jobs will be created by the Casino at East Greenbush? Answer? It isn't. Pete, you're way too smart to buy these numbers. I recommend you read the Comptrollers Report with an open mind and post your thoughts. This is a casino. Swindling is the name of the game. The house always wins because the patrons are willing to buy the lousy mathematics stacked against them. It's no different here. They're pros at this.
ReplyDeleteSo says you ! Others differ - greatly !
DeleteNope - not buying into the political rhetoric. BRING IT ON !
Bring the Casino to EG.
Dear "so says you"..... You'd do a lot better with your argument if you followed Jack's advice and read the report and countered in on the merits with cogent arguments. This possibility will change our community forever, and deserves a much more thoughtful response than "BRING IT ON." Citizens have had to do the work that the Board should have done way before April 16th. Fortunately, the State Comptroller has raised some serious questions which turn the slick claims of the developers into lies.
DeleteI don't care about the report. I not trying to make an argument, I'm stating my point of view!
ReplyDeleteBring the damn thing here and start the hiring and lowering of taxes !
You can rail against it, I'll rail for it !
Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
DeleteYou know I believe the casinos should have been phased in to see just how much the numbers really are. I think they are doing the wrong thing by putting all or one of these sites in a potentially bad spot if they do flood the market. Down state has more people give it a try and see what happens there is tomorrow. And this is not because im against east greenbush but there is a lot more we could potentially lose than gain flooding the market with anything usually don't work
ReplyDeletePete:
ReplyDeleteI invite you, and anyone who cares to join you, to visit the town of Salamanca out here in western New York.
Salamance has a large casino. I'll bet a lot that the same rosy projections were made when that casino was built.
Salamanca, to be frank about it, is a rural ghetto. The downtown area looks almost exactly like Columbia Turnpike.
I have been to Atlantic City several times on business.I lived in New Jersey when those casinos were proposed and built. I remember the same projections of the huge positive impact on the city. And today, one block off the boardwalk, Atlantic City is pretty nasty.
You and I both perfectly recall the $32 million projected economic impact of Fed Ex.
The numbers and projections are being served up by the people with a strong major vested interest in the project. That simple reality, in and off itself, is a cause for distrust.
Western NY differs greatly from Eastern NY financially,fiscally. There's really no comparison.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteDon (5/30 @ 2:30PM), the subject of the post is information.
ReplyDeleteJack (5/31 @ 8:35AM), having worked in, or directly dealt with, the Division of the Budget (DOB) for what feels like an eternity, I can safely say:
1. To paraphrase President Clinton, "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'job' is.” DOB speaks and thinks in Full-Time Equivalents (FTE). Two half-time employees = 1 FTE. DOB sees “1 job” … the casino sees “2 jobs”, as do the two half-time employees.
2. DOB? DOB estimates 2,960 jobs for four facilities (4 x 760) independent of total project scope and size (casino, hotel, theme park, concert, restaurants, hops, etc.) and location.
As I say in 5/29 @ 2:33 PM, “The figures are called "estimates" for a reason.”
Pete Stenson
Lest we all lose sight of the mere fact that regardless of whether or not you are in favor of this casino, Duhfruscio is still calling the shots at Town Hall.
ReplyDeleteWe cannot lose sight of the fact that Langley is incompetent, MAM and Dimartino have virtually no idea what they are doing and Gilbert doesn't belong in Town Hall at all.
COmbine that with the oresence of the muffin man Torino, we've got some real complications on our hands. This town is headed down the road to fiscal disaster- regardless of the casino. Defruscio will plunder the town finances for sure !
Lest we lose sight of the real reason we're in the current mess - promoting and hiring incompetent people !
We do have incompetent people running our town...thanks to the supporters of the "Smart Way Forward". Brings to mind the little ditty we used to say as kids...Made you look at the dirty crook.....that stole your mothers' pocketbook!
ReplyDelete'Fly should stop cherry picking reports and comments to fit his bias.
ReplyDeletewe can do the same from DiNapoli's report "A casino that is located near state borders could attract more out-of-state visitors than a casino located in the state’s interior."
Pete -
ReplyDeleteIf a bunch of those jobs are part-time Saratoga C & R needs to say so. They're calling them "permanent." But my issue runs deeper. Do you think it's in their best interests to give us correct numbers or is it in their best interests to exaggerate. This is a corporation that is part of a national strategy to insert casinos into as many communities as possible. The pooling of knowledge and resources by these "gaming" corporations is of a staggering magnitude. Tens of millions of dollars have gone into finding the best strategy to sell us this kind of enterprise. I count on you for a healthy dose of realism in fiscal matters and until now you've never failed me but Pete, these aren't "estimates" they're pure fiction.
If EG is chosen as the site, guaranteed the first thing that will happen is Saratoga C & R will announce that market saturation is forcing them to scale back the project by at least a third. Members of our town board wouldn't buy a house without doing more research than they've done on this casino. If you ask Town Hall for information about the casino they refer you to the developer's website. If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything and our elected representatives are letting themselves (and us) get swindled by snake oil salesmen.
First Mary Matters and now talk about Ed Gilbert looking at the Supe seat. Langley's refusal and/or inability to talk and listen makes Langley a non-starter for re-election. Can't really blame Mattters and Gilbert for bailing on Queen for a day Langley.
ReplyDeleteIt didn't take long for the Saratoga Casino and Gaming people to realize that Supervisor Langley is a big time liability for their casino project. They now know that any public statement in favor of the project from our very unpopular Supervisor Langley will be a disaster.
ReplyDeleteLet's keep a close eye on Keith Langley at tomorrow's public hearing.
The "snake oil salesman" in this group is Ed Gilbert !
ReplyDeleteLet me remind everyone exactly who and why Ed Gilbert is the nasty,arrogant, miserable little man that he is- he got his a** handed to him twice by the voters !
He's an "appointed" mouthpiece who is stupid enough to speak for Langley and Defruscio. Ed is also rumored to have the Supe seat in his sights ! OMG-Puhleeeez...no more flaming idiots from SWF - we can't afford you arrogant juvenile delinquents much longer !
Ed- you hit the nail on the head - you've only been here 20 years - so really- go home and STHU - please !
How humiliating for Keith Langley that the proposed Casino developers told him in no uncertain terms to stay off of this morning's Paul Vandenburgh radio show broadcast live from East Greenbush. It's even money Deputy Supervisor Gilbert and Councilperson Mary Ann Matters are plotting to deal out Langley's bid for re-election next year.
ReplyDeleteI do hope its Gilbert ! Great news for the dems !
DeleteGilbert hasn't a prayer. We'll just print what we copied and saved from his blog EGDemands. By by eddie boy.
DeleteIf Mary Ann hopes to run for anything, anywhere, she had better vote NO on that casino resolution. Period.
DeleteMAM is dead-meat in any future endeavors in EGB. She has already worn out her welcome and her arrogant demeanor is simply adding fuel to the fire !
ReplyDeleteIts like I said back in August thru November 2013 -
" anything Chris Defruscio touches turns to sh*t" ! And ya know what ?
I was correct !
The reign of Queen Langley will be over on election day 2015.
ReplyDeleteTalk about financial impacts? did you know that DPW Commish and Dumfruscia purchased a compactor trailer for the transfer station, spent $30,000 in repairs to it, only to find out it doesn't fit up to the compactor! wouldn't you think they would have the brains to make sure it would fit up prior to spending all that money! Guess not! They are PATHETIC!
ReplyDeleteAnd your surprised ? Defruscio has every intention to absolutely RUIN EG finances and line the pockets of his family 1st , and friends 2nd.
DeleteWhen mindless political failures such as Ed Gilbert are sent to speak on behalf of the Board Majority, how many more "red flags" do you need to see before you realize how deeply our town is in trouble?
MAM is the epitomy of stupidity; would someone tell her to STOP making those STUPID ASS faces while representing the Town Board; her mouth goes from side to side (ALWAYS) and her eyes twitch - she's just a mess that is proving to the residents she truly is a NOBODY. Lots of Anger there. Deb DiMartino - she's the fashion plate of the show; knows not much, just how to shop and smile and nod up at the Podium, and Langley - he doesn't look up; and he doesn't speak, only if he has to. Its like NIT WIT CITY going to a board meeting and seeing the 3 of them. Thats our Council People. Vote them all out. People, go to Sue OR Phil if you want honest representation without all of the drama from MAM!! it should be a great SHOW tonight; 2 minutes from each person. Langley is probably scared to death - he doesn't like to face people because he's not a people's person. VOTE THEM OUT.
ReplyDeleteThats not very nice (June 04) 6:55 pm. MAM is ticked because her husband didn't make it as councilperson; and according to her; hubb had 1500 phone calls that he shouldn't of taken; which helped him get reprimanded by his employer. OH bull shit; he is a big boy who if he did get all of these calls, could of refused them; it is a fact he may have gotten six calls. MAM grow up and stop pointing fingers. Your hubby is like a little child that never grew up. Your a mean spirited woman that likes to make idiotic faces while on the board; and you have no respect for anyone.
ReplyDeleteI agree 3:17 PM. Now I take it they're going to hold a meeting BEFORE people get out of work whether we want a Racino or NOT and voting on it. Read between the lines; these people are JACKASSES who are going to do anything to get their way: ITS Called POLITICS. It would be nice if one of said NO - not in favor of this casino; he or she will get many, many votes; just having the guts to stand up for himself/herself. Its pathetic; the whole board follows one another; STAND UP, take pride in what should be; quit being a woose like that ALMOST former Keith Langley (Stupid visor). Do whats right and get this town back into some professionalism; how come Mike VanVoris was friends with EVERYONE? Because he didn't hide in the bathroom or behind closed doors constantly. Maybe Langley has IBS! Good Luck at the meeting where by not many people will show; wait to go Langley; You are the epitome of Lazy and Moronic!!
ReplyDelete